Pat: WELL, TWO YEARS
HAVE PASSED SINCE THE
PRESIDENT SIGNED HIS HEALTH
CARE BILL INTO LAW.
BUT OBAMACARE IS JUST
BEGINNING TO HAVE EFFECT.
AS MARK MARTIN REPORTS, MOST
AMERICANS HAVE NOT THE
SLIGHTEST CLUE AS TO WHAT
IMPACT THAT LAW WILL HAVE IN
THEIR LIVES.
AND THAT INCLUDES MEMBERS OF
CONGRESS WHO NOT ONLY VOTED
FOR IT, THEY DIDN'T READ
IT.
Reporter: IT IS KNOWN
AS OBAMACARE, AND THE
PATIENT PROTECTION AND
AFFORDABLE CARE ACT HAS BEEN
CONTROVERSIAL SINCE IT WAS
DRAFTED IN 2009 AND SIGNED
INTO LAW A YEAR LATER.
IT GIVES THE GOVERNMENT
CONTROL OVER ONE-SIXTH OF
THE U.S. ECONOMY, AND IS
MORE THAN 2700 PAGES LONG.
MOST LAWMAKERS WHO VOTED FOR
THE BILL ADMITTED THEY
HADN'T EVEN READ IT.
EVEN ITS MOST ARDENT
SUPPORTER, THEN SPEAKER OF
THE HOUSE, NANCY PELOSI.
WE HAVE TO PASS THE BILL
SO THAT YOU CAN FIND OUT
WHAT IS IN IT.
Reporter: ONE MAN WHO
HAS STUDIED THE LAW IN
DETAIL IS DR. C.L. GREY.
IN HIS BOOK "THE BATTLE FOR@ú
AMERICA'S SOUL," HE PAINTS
AN OMINOUS PICTURE OF LIFE
IN AMERICA UNDER
GOVERNMENT-MANDATED HEALTH
CARE, ESPECIALLY FOR THE
ELDERLY AND THOSE WITH
LIFE-THREATENING ILLNESSES.
Pat: JOINING US TO TALK
ABOUT THIS CONCEPT FOR
PATIENT-CENTERED CARE IS
DR. C.L. GREY.
HE IS THE PRESIDENT AND
FOUNDER OF AN ORGANIZATION
CALLED "PHYSICIANS FOR
REFORM."
HE HAS WRITTEN A BOOK CALLED
"THE BATTLE FOR AMERICA'S
SOUL."
IT IS VERY FAR-REACHING AS
TO THE CONCEPTS OF THE TWO
CLASHES IN OUR SOCIETY.
DR. GREY, THANK YOU FOR
BEING WITH US.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
HAVING ME, PAT.
Pat: BEFORE WE GET INTO
THE HEALTH CARE STUFF, WHAT
ARE THE BASIC CONCEPTS THAT
ARE CLASHING IN OUR SOCIETY?
I REALLY GOT STARTED
ABOUT THIS BECAUSE MY CARE
AND CONCERN FOR THE
PATIENT.
BECAUSE HEALTH CARE IS VERY
PERSONAL.
IT AFFECTS DEMOCRATS,
INDEPENDENTS, AND
REPUBLICANS.
WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO
UNDERSTAND IS THE FORCES
BEHIND WHAT IS HAPPENING.
AND THERE IS REALLY THE
JUDAEO CHRISTIAN WORLD VIEW,
WHICH, OF COURSE, YOU
UNDERSTAND EXTREMELY WELL.
AT THE BASIS OF THAT, THERE
IS THE CONCEPT OF TRUTH AND
THE CONCEPT OF THE
INDIVIDUAL.
AS OPPOSED TO THAT, WE HAVE
WHAT I CALL THE POST-MODERN
WORLD VIEW.
AND THE POST-MODERN WORLD
VIEW SETS ASIDE THE CONCEPT
OF TRUTH AND SETS ASIDE THE
INTRINSIC DIGNITY OF THE
HUMAN.
BECAUSE THERE IS NO GOD.
WHEN YOU SET ASIDE THE
CONCEPT OF THE GOD, YOU SET
ASIDE THE CONCEPT OF THE
INTRINSIC WORTH OF THE
INDIVIDUAL.
Pat: WHAT IS THE
SUBSTITUTE?
WELL, THERE IS NO
SUBSTITUTE.
I GUESS THERE IS A, I GUESS,
REPLACEMENT.
THAT'S WHEN YOU REMOVE GOD
FROM THE PICTURE.
THAT TAKES EFFECT AND HAS A
SEVERE IMPACT ON HEALTH CARE
BECAUSE OF HOW THESE WORLD
VIEWS VIEW THE PATIENT.
Pat: ALL RIGHT.
GIVE ME SPECIFICS THAT WE
CAN GET DRILLED DOWN ON TO
WHAT ONE WOULD -- ONE WOULD
BE AFFECTED.
PERHAPS A STORY.
THE STORY OF BARBARA WAGNER
WOULD BE MOST HELPFUL.
BARBARA WAS A 64-YEAR-OLD
GAL IN OREGON AND SHE DIDN'T
HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE AND
ENDED UP ON A STATE-RUN
PROGRAM.
SHE HAD RECURRENT LUNG
CANCER, AND SHE WENT TO HER
ONCOLOGIST AND HE
RECOMMENDED TREATMENT WITH A
NEW CHEMOTHERAPY.
SHE WENT TO GET THE
CHEMOTHERAPY, BUT SHE
COULDN'T GET THE MEDICINE.
SHE GOT A LETTER FROM THE
STATE OF OREGON SAYING THEY
WOULD NOT PAY FOR
CHEMOTHERAPY, BUT THEY WOULD
PAY FOR HOSPICE ARE
PHYSICIAN-ASSISTED SUICIDE.
Pat: IN OREGON, THEY
SAID WE'LL HELP YOU KILL
YOURSELF.
IN A LETTER.
Pat: IN A LETTER?
SOMEBODY SIGNED IT?
ABSOLUTELY.
SHE APPEALED IT TWICE, AND
GOT DENIED TWICE.
THERE IS AN AMAZING VIDEO
WHERE SHE IS SITTING, LOOKS
LIKE IN HER KITCHEN, READY
TO GO WALK HER DOG AND MAKE
COOKIES.
GOVERNMENT COMPASSION SOUNDS
SO NOBLE, BUT IN THE END,
WHOEVER PAYS HOLDS THE POWER
TO CHOICE.
Pat: THE AUDIENCE MUST
BE ABSOLUTELY HORRIFIED AT
THIS.
A GOVERNMENT AGENT TELLS
THIS 64-YEAR-OLD LADY WHO
LIKES TO BAKE COOKIES.
YOU'VE GOT CANCER.
WE CAN'T AFFORD TO GIVE YOU
UP TO DATE TREATMENT, BUT
WE'LL GIVE YOU ENOUGH MONEY
TO GET YOURSELF KILLED.
WOW!
THAT'S LIKE THE NAZIS.
THEY HAD REPLACED HER
CHANCE TO LIVE WITH A CHOICE
OF HOW TO DIE.
BECAUSE THEY HAD RUN OUT OF
MONEY.
AND I DEAL WITH THIS IN THE
BOOK.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TRUST
GOVERNMENT -- GOVERNMENT
COMPASSION SOUNDS NOBLE.
WE'RE ONE OF THE MOST
COMPASSIONATE NATIONS ON
EARTH.
WE ALL WANT OUR FELLOW
AMERICAN TO HAVE ACCESS TO
CARE.
BUT THE GOVERNMENT HAS
LIMITED RESOURCES.
AND WE'RE $16 TRILLION IN
DEBT.
AND I GO THROUGH AND I
COMPLAIN HOW THIS
POST-MODERN WORLD VIEW
STARTS TO REVALUE THE
INDIVIDUAL.
ESPECIALLY INFANTS BORN WITH
DISABILITIES, AND SENIORS
ARE GIVEN INTRINSICALLY LESS
WORTH THAN THOSE THAT
ARE, QUOTE,"PRODUCTIVE" TO
SOCIETY.
Pat: SO THESE ARE
USELESS EATERS UNDER THE
POST-MODERN --
SOMETIMES THEY USE THE
PHRASE "LIVES THAT ARE NOT
WORTH LIVING."
IT COMES BACK FROM BACK IN
THE NAZI ERA.
Pat: LET'S GO TO
OBAMACARE.
THAT HAS BEEN FOUGHT OVER.
AND NANCY PELOSI SAYS WE
HAVE TO PASS THE BILL SO WE
CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT'S IN
IT.
THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST
INSANE STATEMENTS BY A
SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.
LET'S PASS IT SO WERE CAN
UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WILL DO.
YOU'RE A DOCTOR.
HOW WILL IT AFFECT YOUR
RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR
PATIENTS OF WHAT YOU CAN AND
CAN'T DO.
IT FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGES
THE PATIENT-PHYSICIAN
RELATIONSHIP.
THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL
CHANGE.
IT WAS PREDICTABLE.
I WROTE ABOUT IT BEFORE IT
HAPPENED.
WHEN THE PHYSICIAN BECOMES
AN EMPLOYEE OF THE STATE,
NOW THEY HAVE A FINANCIAL
INTEREST TO LOOK OUT FOR THE
FINANCIAL INTEREST OF THE
STATE, NOT THE WELL-BEING OF
THE INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN.
THAT'S REFLECTED IN THE
STORY OF BARBARA WAGNER.
Pat: SO THE MOST COSTLY
TREATMENT IS SOMETHING THAT
YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T
PRESCRIBE BECAUSE IT WILL
COST THE STATE MONEY AND
YOU'LL LOSE MONEY IT.
THAT'S ESSENTIALLY THE
WAY IT WILL BE SET UP.
THE PHYSICIANS WON'T BE
REIMBURSED TO OFFER THE
TREATMENTS THAT ARE MORE
EXPENSIVE.
THIS FALLS MOSTLY TO
SENIORS.
Pat: WILL THIS DIMINISH
THE NUMBER OF PHYSICIANS
AVAILABLE?
ABSOLUTELY.
THERE IS A RECENT SURVEY
THAT SUGGESTS THAT 43% OF
PHYSICIANS ARE LOOKING TO
LEAVE MEDICINE BECAUSE OF
THIS LEGISLATION.
Pat: WHY WOULD THEY
LEAVE?
BECAUSE IT FUNDAMENTALLY
CHANGES HOW WE THINK, HOW WE
PRACTICE.
THERE IS FAR MORE CONCERN
ABOUT DO WE CHECK THE RIGHT
BOXES.
IS THE CHART PERFECT.
THAT'S THE CONCERN OF THE
CURRENT SYSTEM THAT WE'RE
MOVING INTO.
IF YOU MISS ANYTHING,
PHYSICIANS CAN BE SEVERELY,
SEVERELY PUNISHED.
Pat: GIVE ME AN
EXAMPLE.
THERE IS THE RECOVERY ON
A CONTRACTOR.
WHERE THE INDEPENDENT
CONTRACTORS GO IN AND GO
THROUGH PHYSICIAN RECORDS,
MOSTLY FOR PATIENTS ON
MEDICARE.
IF THERE IS ANY
DOCUMENTATION ERROR, THAT
PHYSICIAN HAS TO ESSENTIALLY
PAY THAT MONEY BACK.
AND SOMETIMES THAT CAN
AMOUNT TO HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS TO MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS, PUTTING PHYSICIANS
OUT OF BUSINESS.
Pat: AND NO INSURANCE
FOR THAT.
YOU CAN'T ENSURE AGAINST
THAT?
NO.
NO.
AND ACTUALLY IT GETS WORSE
THAN THAT.
WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO
EXPLAIN.
Pat: MY SHOCK LEVEL IS
GOING UP.
I'VE GOT TIME TO GET SHOCKED
SOME MORE.
WHAT?
OKAY.
LET'S GO TO A SLIGHTLY
DIFFERENT PIECE.
I TALKED ABOUT THE YOUNG AND
THE OLD.
THERE IS A BOOK I READ --
THIS IS BACK IN 1990s,
RE-THINKING LIFE AND DEATH,
WRITTEN BY PETER SINGER,
FROM PRINCETON, UNIVERSITY.
HE SAYS WE SHOULD REEXAM
HUMAN LIFE, AND WE DON'T
CONSIDER INFANTS TOTALLY
HUMAN UNTIL FIVE WEEKS OF
AGE.
SO IF YOU'RE BORN WITH A
DISABILITY, YOU CAN BE
KILLED.
THIS IS REMOVING THE
DISABLED AND THE ELDERLY --
Pat: HE TEACHES AT
PRINCETON?
HE IS STILL THERE.
Pat: WHY DON'T THEY
FIRE HIM.
YOU CAN KILL A CHILD AFTER
FIVE WEEKS, BECAUSE HE
DIDN'T LOOK LIKE HE IS
HEALTHY -- THAT'S MURDER.
THAT IS INFANTCIDE.
Pat: IT IS OKAY TO
PETER SINGER.
IT IS RECOMMENDED BECAUSE
IT IS MORE EFFICIENT.
WE CAN TAKE ALL OF THE
DOLLARS WE SAVED BY NOT
TREATING KIDS WITH
DISABILITIES, AND TRANSFER
THEM TO KIDS THAT ARE MORE
MORE GIFTED.
WE LOOK OUT FOR SOCIETY --
Pat: UNBELIEVABLE.
A VAST MAJORITY OF HEALTH
CARE DOLLARS GO TO PEOPLE
OVER 70.
AND THAT'S WHEN THE
HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS REALLY
NEEDED, WHEN YOU START TO
HAVE FAILING HEALTH, WHICH
GENERALLY COMES AT THE END
OF LIFE.
THE GOOD NEWS HERE IS THERE
ARE SOLUTIONS.
UNDER THE PATIENT PROTECTION
AND AFFORDABLE CARE ACT,
OBAMACARE, THE CONGRESSIONAL
OFFICE SAYS THEY'RE GOING TO
BE CUTTING $17 BILLION, AND
IN ADDITION TO THAT, THERE
IS ANOTHER $290 BILLION.
IT'S ABOUT A TRILLION CUT.
BUT WE CAN START TO FIX THAT
SYSTEM, AND I LAID THAT OUT
IN MY POLICY PAPER "CUTTING
THE GORDION KNOT."
IT CAN SAFE 3- TO
$4 BILLION.
AND I CAN USE THAT TO START
TO STABILIZE MEDICARE FOR
SENIORS.
Pat: THE DEMOCRATS
DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT
MALPRACTICE INSURANCE.
I HAPPENED TO RUN INTO ONE
ON AN AIRPLANE.
I THINK HE SAID HIS PREMIUMS
FOR INSURANCE WERE SOMETHING
LIKE $3 MILLION A YEAR.
THAT'S UNBELIEVABLE.
HOW CAN YOU PRACTICE
MEDICINE AND PAY THAT KIND
OF PREMIUM?
THAT MUST HAVE BEEN FOR A
GROUP OR HOSPITAL POLICY,
AND NOT FOR AN INDIVIDUAL
PHYSICIAN.
BUT IT CAN BE ASTRONOMICAL.
BUT THAT'S ANOTHER WAY.
AND ESSENTIALLY IN THE PAPER
I OUTLINED 17 IDEAS, AND
TORT REFORM IS ONE OF THE
17.
Pat: CAN WE REIN IN THE
COST OF MEDICINE?
ABSOLUTELY.
AND THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO DO
IT.
THIS REFLECTS THOSE TWO
WORLD VIEWS.
YOU CAN EITHER GO WITH THE
WORLD VIEW OF PETER SINGER
AND DR. MANUEL AND PATIENT
AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, AND
THROUGH A BUREAUCRATIC
OPTION LIMIT ACCESS TO
CARE.
I DON'T LIKE THAT CHOICE.
THE OTHER CHOICE IS TO MAKE
THE SYSTEM MORE EFFICIENT,
THROUGH TORT REFORM, THROUGH
DIRECT PHYSICIAN PAY
SYSTEMS.
I WAS DOING A TOWNHALL DOWN
IN NORTH CAROLINA, AND ONE
OF THE PHYSICIANS THERE
DIDN'T TAKE MEDICARE,
MEDICAID, OR INSURANCE.
HE TRIPLED HIS EFFICIENCY.
THE AVERAGE FAMILY PRACTICE
PHYSICIAN NEEDS BETWEEN FOUR
AND FIVE EMPLOYEES TO DEAL
WITH ALL OF THE PAPERWORK
FOR EVERY ONE PHYSICIAN.
HE IS ABLE TO ABLE TO HIRE
THREE PHYSICIANS FOR EVERY
ONE EMPLOYEE, BY GETTING RID
OF ALL OF THE BUREAUCRATIC
OVERSIGHT.
HE CAN SPEND MORE TIME WITH
HIS PATIENTS AND HAVE BETTER
OUTCOMES.
HE IS HAPPIER, AND HIS
PATIENTS ARE HAPPIER, BY
GETTING RID OF THE
BUREAUCRATIC --
Pat: WHAT ABOUT
BUREAUCRATIC PANEL THAT
DECIDES WHETHER PEOPLE CAN
GET CARE OR NOT CARE.
IT IS IN THE BILL.
IT IS SECTION 3403.
IT IS A SECTION CALLED THE
IPAD, THE INDEPENDENT
PAYMENT ADVISOR BOARD.
THIS IS ONE OF THE WORST IN
THE BILL.
Pat: I'M GLAD I POINTED
THAT OUT.
THERE ARE 15 INDEPENDENT
EXPERTS, AND THEIR JOB IS
TASKED SPECIFICALLY, QUOTE,"
IT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS
SECTION TO REDUCE THE PER
CAPITA RATE OF GROWTH OF
MEDICARE SPENDING."
IT STUCK IN MY HEAD.
BUT HIS PANEL WILL START TO
LIMIT ACCESS TO CARE FOR
SENIORS.
THAT'S THEIR JOB.
AND WHAT'S THE WORST PART
ABOUT IT IS THEY'RE GIVEN
LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY ABOVE
CONGRESS.
Pat: WHO APPOINTS
THEM?
THE PRESIDENT APPOINTS
THEM?
THE PRESIDENT APPOINTS
THEM FOR SIX YEARS.
Pat: WITH NO OVERSIGHT
BY CONGRESS?
NO OVERSIGHT BY
CONGRESS.
NO OVERSIGHT BY THE JUDICIAL
SYSTEM OR BY THE EXECUTIVE
BRANCH.
IT IS TRULY THE WORST -- I
WOULD EXPECT THAT IN STALIN
IST RUSSIA.
I OFTEN SAY I CAN'T BELIEVE
THIS IS HAPPENING IN
AMERICA.
BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN
WE SET ASIDE A WORLD VIEW,
THE CONCEPT OF A FIXED
TRUTH, WITH A RULE OF LAW.
WHERE WE THE PEOPLE GRANT
POWER TO GOVERNMENT.
GOVERNMENT DOES NOT GRANT
LIBERTY TO WE THE PEOPLE.
Pat: DR. GREY, I'M
TELLING YOU, HE HAS ALL OF
THESE PAPERS HERE,
PHYSICIANS REFORM,
CONSULTING THE GORDION
KNOT.
PATIENT-CENTERED FISCAL
RESPONSIBLE APPROACHES, AND
THE BOOK IS "THE BATTLE FOR
AMERICA'S SOUL."
IT'S HEAVY READING, BUT IT'S
VERY INTERESTING.
SO IT IS AVAILABLE.
IT IS AVAILABLE THROUGH
MY NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS
physicianforreform.org AND
THERE IS ALSO A D.V.D. THEY
CAN ORDER WITH THIS.
Pat: AND YOU CAN GO TO
cbn.com AND YOU CAN PICK IT
UP.
IF THAT DOESN'T SCARE THE
DAY LIGHTS OUT OF YOU, I
DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL.
DR. GREY, THANK YOU SO
MUCH.
GOD BLESS YOU.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
HAVING ME.
