I'M SHOWING A PICTURE OF THE
HEAD OF THE P.L.A. -- THE
PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY,
HAMAZ, AND THE PRIME
MINISTER OF ISRAEL BEING
HELD TOGETHER IN WHAT LOOKS
LIKE THE OVAL OFFICE BY
GEORGE BUSH.
THE GENTLEMAN WHO WAS BUSH'S
FOREIGN POLICY ADVISOR
DEALING WITH THE MIDDLE
EAST, UNDER SECRETARY OF THE
STATE DEPARTMENT, AND HE IS
ONE OF THE MOST
KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE IN
AMERICA CONCERNING THIS
SITUATION.
AND HE IS HERE WITH US RIGHT
NOW.
WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT
HIS BOOK CALLED "TESTED BY
ZION."
ELLIOT ABRAMS, WE'RE
DELIGHTED TO HAVE YOU WITH
US HERE ON "THE 700 CLUB."
THANK YOU.
IT IS A GREAT PLEASURE TO BE
WITH YOU AGAIN, PAT.
Pat: IN YOUR BOOK,
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
OBSESSION WITH THE MIDDLE
EAST PEACE PROCESS, AND
YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE
ACTORS AND THE BIG PLAYERS
LOU THROUGHOUT THE MIDDLE
EAST REALLY DON'T PUT THAT
NUMBER ONE ON THEIR AGENDA.
IS THAT A TRUE STATEMENT OF
WHAT YOU SAID?
IT IS A TRUE STATEMENT.
IF YOU TALK TO THE ISRAELIS
OR TO MOST OF THE ARABS,
WHAT THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT
IS IRAN.
THE PEACE PROCESS IS OFF ON
THE SIDE.
THEY WONDER WHY WE OBSESS
ABOUT IT WHEN THEIR REAL
CONCERN IS IRAN.
Pat: AND SAID ALSO WHEN
OUR DIPLOMATES ARE WORKING
ON THIS AND THE POLITICIANS,
THEY SEEM MORE CONCERNED
ABOUT THE PROCESS AND MORE
CONCERNED ABOUT GETTING SOME
KIND OF SOMETHING ON A PIECE
OF PAPER THAN ACTUAL
PROGRESS ON THE GROUND.
TALK ABOUT THAT?
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
EVERYBODY IS LOOKING FOR THE
GREAT HANDSHAKE ON THE WHITE
HOUSE LAWN, IT'S NOBEL PEACE
PRIZE, AND BIG INTERNATIONAL
CONFERENCES.
WHEN, REALLY, WHAT WE OUGHT
TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT IS
SECURITY AND PROSPERITY FOR
PEOPLE LIVING IN ISRAEL AND
LIVING EN THE PALESTINIAN
AREAS.
HOW CAN WE MAKE THEIR LIVES
BETTER?
HOW CAN WE HELP THEM GET
BETTER JOBS, MORE AUTONOMY
AUTONOMY?
INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON THE
PRAGMATIC THINGS, EVERYBODY
WANTS THAT GREAT CONFERENCE
IN THE SKY.
AND WE MISS A LOT OF
OPPORTUNITIES TO IMPROVE
PEOPLE'S LIVES.
Pat: THIS PICTURE ON
YOUR COVER, YOUR BOOK SHOWS
AERIAL SHARON, BUT HE DID
SOMETHING THAT I THOUGHT WAS
A BIG MISTAKE WHEN HE GAVE
AWAY SOME LAND.
WHAT'S YOUR POINT OF VIEW?
VERY CONTROVERSIAL.
HE DID THAT AS A GENERAL,
THINKING 1500 ISRAELIS IN
THE MIDDLE OF A MILLION AND
A HALF PALESTINIANS WAS A
HUGE STRAIN ON THE ISRAEL
ARMY FOREVER.
MANY GENERALS THINK HIS REAL
MISTAKE WAS NOT IN GETTING
OUT OF THE SETTLEMENTS IN
GAZA, BUT IN GETTING OUT
WHAT IS CALLED THE
PHILADELPHIA STRIP, THAT
DIVIDES GAZA FROM SINAI
BECAUSE THAT'S THE GROUP
THAT ALL OF THE WEAPONS COME
FROM IRAN TO HAMAS.
A LOT OF GENERALS THINK IF
HE KEPT THAT STRIP, HE WOULD
HAVE BEEN PROTECTING
ISRAEL'S SECURITY BETTER.
Pat: IT IS AMAZING,
HAMAS HAS MOVED INTO THAT
AREA, FILLED TO VACUUM, SO
TO SPEAK, AND THEY'RE
LAUNCHING MISSILES ON AN
ALMOST DAILY BASIS INTO
THOSE ISRAELI TERRITORIES.
THEY ARE.
AND THE ISRAELIS CALL THAT
GAZA HAMASTAN.
I THINK THE LESSON FOR
ISRAEL IS ON THE JORDAN AND
THE JORDAN VALLEY.
IF THEY EVER ABANDON THE
JORDAN RIVER AND THE JORDAN
VALLEY, YOU REALLY HAVE TO
WORRY ABOUT THEIR SECURITY.
AND I THINK A LOT OF THEM
BELIEVE THAT.
Pat: WHAT ABOUT THE
FUTURE?
YOU KNOW, IT WAS PROPOSED
SOME TIME AGO THAT REALLY
THE OLD DAYS, THOSE
SO-CALLED PALESTINIANS HAD
JORDANIAN PASSPORTS, AND
MAYBE LETTING THAT PART OF
THE TERRITORY, THE WEST
BANK, COME ON CONTROL OF
JORDAN.
WOULD THAT BE A GOOD
SOLUTION?
YOU KNOW, AS YOU KNOW, AT
THE VERY END OF THE BOOK, I
SAY I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK
ABOUT THERE SOLUTION.
BECAUSE IF YOU EVER HAD AN
INDEPENDENT PALESTINIAN
STATE, IT IS NATURAL THEY
WOULD IMMEDIATELY TURN TO
JORDAN FOR POLITICS,
COMMERCIALLY, AND FOR AIR
TRAVEL, AND THE LINKS
BETWEEN THEM AND JORDAN
WOULD GROW AND GROW.
THE PALESTINIANS WOULD
REALLY NEED TO BE JORDANIAN
ARMYS FOR SECURITY.
IT IS NOT POPULAR TO TALK
ABOUT THAT, BUT I'M GLAD YOU
RAISED IT BECAUSE IT IS THE
NATURAL EVOLUTION.
AS ONE PALESTINIAN ONCE SAID
TO ME, WE NEED TO HAVE A
PALESTINIAN STATE FOR 15
MINUTES, ANYWAY.
Pat: THERE IS SO MUCH
CORRUPTION.
HOW ABOUT THE BROTHERHOOD?
THEY SET UP YASSER ARAFAT
AND THE P.L.O.
WHAT ABOUT THE PALESTINIAN
AUTHORITIES?
IT IS DESPERATELY CORRUPT,
ISN'T IT?
YEAH.
THERE WAS A DECREASE IN
CORRUPTION AFTER ARAFAT DIED
IN 2004.
IT HAS CLIMBED UP AGAIN.
IT IS A VERY BIG PROBLEM,
INCLUDING, FRANKLY, MAHMOUD
ABBAS, WHO'S PICTURE YOU
SHOWED ON THE COVER OF THE
BOOK.
HE AND HIS SONS ARE INVOLVED
IN A LOT OF THINGS THAT THEY
SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN.
THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM FOR
LOOKING AHEAD FOR THE
PALESTINIANS.
THEY HAVE GOT TO FIND A WAY
TO WRING THAT OUT OF THE
SYSTEM.
Pat: I THINK ONE OF THE
THINGS YOU WERE TRYING TO
SHOW WAS HOW INVOLVED GEORGE
BUSH WAS IN THIS PROCESS.
IS THAT TRUE TO?
HE REALLY WAS DOING
EVERYTHING HE COULD TO BRING
ABOUT A PEACEFUL SOLUTION?
I'M GLAD YOU RAISED THAT
BECAUSE THERE IS A MYTH THAT
PRESIDENT BUSH WASN'T
INVOLVED AND WASN'T
INTERESTED.
I SHOW IN THE BOOK STORY BY
STORY, MEETING IN THE OVAL
OFFICE, AIR FORCE 1
TRAVEL -- HE WAS INVOLVED
JUST ABOUT EVERY DAY.
HE DIDN'T PUSH ISRAEL INTO A
PEACE AGREEMENT THAT THEY
DID NOT WANT BECAUSE HE
THOUGHT THAT WAS WRONG.
HE THOUGHT THE CONDITIONS
DIDN'T EXIST FOR IT.
AND HE TOLD THEM, I WILL
NEVER TRY TO CRAM THIS --
THAT WAS HIS WORD -- I WILL
NEVER TRY TO CRAM THIS DOWN
ON YOU.
BUT HE WAS INVOLVED IN
TRYING BECAUSE HE REALLY
CARED.
DEEP, DEEP IN HIS HEART, HE
CARED ABOUT THE FUTURE OF
ISRAEL.
Pat: WHAT DO YOU THINK
IS GOING TO HAPPEN?
MORSI HAS A REVOMI REVOLT
ON HIS HANDS IN EGYPT, AND
THE IRANIANS ARE ALMOST AT
THAT RED LINE NETANYAHU
TALKED ABOUT.
DO YOU SEE AN EXPLOSION OVER
THERE?
I CAN'T SEE A PEACEFUL
SOLUTION COMING OUT OF THIS
TROUBLED REGION, BUT MAYBE
I'M WRONG.
IT IS VERY HARD TO BE
OPTMISTIC ABOUT EGYPT.
WHERE I DON'T SEE THE SYSTEM
HOLDING.
I'M NOT AT ALL SURE THAT
THAT SYSTEM WON'T COLLAPSE
IN ANOTHER YEAR.
AND IRAN, YOU KNOW, ARE THE
ISRAELIS REALLY GOING TO PUT
THEIR FUTURE, THEIR LIVES,
THEIR CHILDREN'S LIVES, IN
THE HANDS OF MR. OBAMA AND
MR. BIDEN AND RISK
EVERYTHING ON THAT?
I DON'T THINK SO.
I THINK SOME TIME IN THE
NEXT YEAR, THEY'RE GOING TO
ACT AGAINST IRAN.
Pat: IT IS NOT A
PLEASANT PROSPECT, IS IT?
IT REALLY ISN'T.
AND IT'S WRONG.
IT'S WRONG IN THE SENSE
WE'RE THE GLOBAL POWER,
WE'RE THE SUPER POWER.
IF IRAN IS A THREAT TO THE
WORLD, AND HE IS, WE'RE THE
ONES WHO SHOULD ACT.
AND WE ARE INFINITELY
STRONGER THAN ISRAEL.
IT IS KIND OF DISGRACEFUL TO
LEAVE THIS GLOBAL PROBLEM IN
THE HANDS OF THIS SMALL
NATION.
BUT IF WE DO, I BELIEVE
THEY'LL TAKE THAT
RESPONSIBILITY, AND THEY'LL
SAVE THEMSELVES AND US.
Pat: THANK YOU FOR THE
WORK YOU'VE DONE.
WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU.
THE BOOK IS CALLED "TESTED
BY ZION."
YOU'LL FIND IT VERY
INTERESTING, WRITTEN BY A
MAN WHO WAS THERE IN THOSE
NEGOTIATIONS.
FASCINATING.
Terry: LOTS TO WATCH IN
THE COMING YEARS.
Pat: OH!
I SAID AT THE BEGINNING,
THINK WHAT A NUKE WHAT DO,
AND AHMADINEJAD AND THOSE
MULLAHS, THEY ARE FANATICS.
AND THEY WOULDN'T MIND
INCINERATORING ISRAEL.
NOR WOULD THEY MIND TAKING
FIVE MILLION CASUALTIES --
Terry: THAT'S WHAT I
WAS GOING TO SAY, THEIR OWN
PEOPLE.
Pat: BECAUSE IT WILL
BRING IN THE MONEY.
THE MONEY WILL APPEAR AND
BRING PEACE TO THE WORLD.
THAT'S WHAT THEY BELIEVE.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO NEGOTIATE
THEM OUT OF THAT.
BUT THE PEOPLE IN
WASHINGTON, WHO SEEM TO HAVE
STARS IN THEIR EYES DON'T
UNDERSTAND FANATACISM.
A GREAT BOOK, "TESTED BY
ZION."
