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Pastor John Gray, Bishop Harry Jackson, Others Accused of 'Uncle Tomming' in Trump Meeting, Their Response Is Powerful

Pastor John Gray, Bishop Harry Jackson, Others Accused of 'Uncle Tomming' in Trump Meeting, Their Response Is Powerful Read Transcript


- The African American pastorswho met with President Trump

Wednesday are facing backlasheven by fellow believers.

They're being criticized formeeting with the president

who some say is a racist and has policies

that aren't in favor ofminorities in America.

However, others say he'sone of the most pro-black

presidents in history,

even more so than former president Obama.

Bishop Harry Jackson was among those

who attended the White House meeting

and joins us now to discuss this fall out.

Bishop, thank you, firstof all, for your time.

- Thank you Charlene.

Great to be with you again.

- OK, so first of allBishop, you were there

in the meeting withPresident Trump on yesterday.

What was talked about?

What was accomplished?

- Well, what we talkedabout was his urban agenda,

which would includecriminal justice reform

and reentry for people.

He talked about the factthat he has commitments

for four million new jobsto come to urban centers

and that there's been movementon the First Step Act,

which is a reentry actthat Congress has passed

and that he is in full support of.

So, I've been talking to himabout criminal justice reform

over about a year and three or four months

and I'm just elated andI think many of our guys

sitting around the table were delighted

at the progress the president has made

and his heart toward the leastof these in urban settings.

- And Pastor Jamal Bryant,who I'm sure you are

familiar with, he spoke against those,

including yourself whoattended this meeting

and he says that you guyswere too complimentary

of the president anddidn't really press him

on the issues.

What do you say to thatand as well as the comments

that people are making thatthis was just a photo opp?

- Well, first of all, Iwanna say about Jamal Bryant,

that I love Jamal Bryant.

I would consider him aperson who I'm very, very

friendly with and I think his heart

is to promote African Americanissues in our community,

but I think he's got it wrong on this one.

What he doesn't understandthat you can't be

a prophet to the culturewhile you're standing

outside of the room.

Many of the people whocame in to that meeting

knew that they would bemisunderstood, disrespected,

lied on, talked about,but they came anyway.

Because the needs of thepeople, especially returning

citizens, are so important.

I believe this is thegreatest civil rights

issue of our generation,the over criminalization

of minorities and what are we, the church,

gonna advocate for?

So, I've got more couragethan I let Jamal Bryant's

opinion keep me from speaking to the most

powerful person on planet earth.

That's how I see it.

- And when it comes to theresponse of fellow believers

and pastors, what do youthink is the biblical way

to handle this sort of disagreement?

'Cause it is pretty nasty on right now

between Christians, people who love God.

- Well I think it's very simple.

Matthew 18 says, "Go toyour brother one on one."

And Jamal, I love you,but you didn't call me.

So I feel some kinda way.

Number two, it says, "Thentake it to the elders."

Their denomination, denominational leaders

that should be engaged if they have ought

and if they think that some of these folk

who were in a meeting are sell outs,

let's talk.

Let's talk behind closeddoors among ourselves.

So, our critics, if I canbe so blunt as to say it

this way, I speak in love,

they are not following anykind of biblical pattern

and I wanna ask them, areyou even praying for me

before you talk about me?

So, my answer is let's goback and go to the bible.

Let's do it the bible way.

- OK Bishop, what doAfrican American pastors

and believers and really all Americans

need to understand asthese political differences

continue to divide ournation even further?

- Well, I think westart with the fact that

for African Americans, wehave a 400 year old problem

from the 1600s.

We've got people who havebeen abused and misused

by multiple groups of leadership

and the old civil rightsguys in King's Day said,

"We have no permanent friends,only permanent interest."

So I believe this is a time where we need

a heart revolution, revivalamong African Americans

especially Latinos andthen we need to cry out

for biblical justice and more than that,

we need to do it in practical ways.

So, every church, we'restarting a campaign called

Bring Dad Home For The Holidays.

Every church in America should bring two

returning citizens to their church,

help them get clothing, housing.

Help them get retraining.

We're doing that in our church.

My question to Jamal and all the others,

what are you doing?

Not what are you saying?

What are you doing in Jesus' name?

- Bishop, you know,some have the argue that

the cameras were rolling andthat if you really wanted

to get something done, whydid all of this have to be

played out in front of cameras?

What do you say to that?

- I say they don't understandthat I've been talking

for 15 months about these issues.

They don't understandthat I've cried and prayed

and fasted that God would move in

on the hearts of these leadersand this administration.

They want to diminish myheart and my spirituality

and they just don'tunderstand that if this stuff

is going on in America,it's gonna get fixed.

We're gonna have to call onsupernatural, biblical authority

to break the chains that bind

and break the curse ofgenerational poverty

on blacks and Hispanics in our nation.

So, my heart is to see Americablaze in the glory of God.

My heart is, I don't carewhat people say about me,

but can Jesus use me?

Can he move in our nation?

Forgive me, my heart is alittle bit touched today.

But that's where I live.

I'm just speaking from who I am

as a person and as a minister.

- Man and what do you hopecomes from all of this,

the meeting, all of thebacklash, everything?

How do you see God using it?

- Well, I'm hoping that we'llcome to a great conclusion

even as the church that wecan influence the nation's

government because we're a democracy,

but we as the church, havegotta repent from our sins.

There's the sin of apathy.

There's the sin of not caring

that kids don't have their dad with them

when they're incarcerated somewhere.

It's the sin of not reallywanting to break out

of our comfort zone andthrow angry stones at others.

That's true, blacks, whites,democrats, republicans,

that's the American conviction.

We're too comfortable,we're too judgmental.

I pray that a mightyjustice revival will rise up

and the hand of Godwill move upon our land

and we'll see people come to Christ

and become disciples of our Lord Jesus.

That's my heart, that'swhat I believe we're

positioned to see andI hope your listeners

will join me on prayer, journeys,

and a prayer vigil if you will

to see our great nation change

that it's even better than it is today.

- Amen and speaking of prayer, Bishop,

would you please lead us in prayer

for revival in ournation, for unity and love

in the church to override our politics?

- Yes, I'd love to.

Heavenly Father, I thank you for CBN,

for Gordon and Pat and Charlene.

I thank you for the anointing and grace

that's upon them, but God,

I pray that you wouldbreak the pride levels

even of our religious leaders and God,

continue to work on my heart.

God, that we begin to beatwith your heart's vision.

God, I believe that King'sdream was not his dream,

but it was God's dream, your dream.

And Lord help us to dream a dream

and have practicaloutworking of that dream

and let it be on our watch.

Let us be so filled withlove God, that we turned

whole cities and ultimately, our nation,

in the mighty name of Jesus, amen.

- Amen, amen.

Bishop Harry Jackson, thankyou so much for praying

and for your insights today.

God bless you.

- Thank you, Charlene.

- You're welcome.

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