Pastor John Gray, Bishop Harry Jackson, Others Accused of 'Uncle Tomming' in Trump Meeting, Their Response Is Powerful
- The African American pastorswho met with President Trump
Wednesday are facing backlasheven by fellow believers.
They're being criticized formeeting with the president
who some say is a racist and has policies
that aren't in favor ofminorities in America.
However, others say he'sone of the most pro-black
presidents in history,
even more so than former president Obama.
Bishop Harry Jackson was among those
who attended the White House meeting
and joins us now to discuss this fall out.
Bishop, thank you, firstof all, for your time.
- Thank you Charlene.
Great to be with you again.
- OK, so first of allBishop, you were there
in the meeting withPresident Trump on yesterday.
What was talked about?
What was accomplished?
- Well, what we talkedabout was his urban agenda,
which would includecriminal justice reform
and reentry for people.
He talked about the factthat he has commitments
for four million new jobsto come to urban centers
and that there's been movementon the First Step Act,
which is a reentry actthat Congress has passed
and that he is in full support of.
So, I've been talking to himabout criminal justice reform
over about a year and three or four months
and I'm just elated andI think many of our guys
sitting around the table were delighted
at the progress the president has made
and his heart toward the leastof these in urban settings.
- And Pastor Jamal Bryant,who I'm sure you are
familiar with, he spoke against those,
including yourself whoattended this meeting
and he says that you guyswere too complimentary
of the president anddidn't really press him
on the issues.
What do you say to thatand as well as the comments
that people are making thatthis was just a photo opp?
- Well, first of all, Iwanna say about Jamal Bryant,
that I love Jamal Bryant.
I would consider him aperson who I'm very, very
friendly with and I think his heart
is to promote African Americanissues in our community,
but I think he's got it wrong on this one.
What he doesn't understandthat you can't be
a prophet to the culturewhile you're standing
outside of the room.
Many of the people whocame in to that meeting
knew that they would bemisunderstood, disrespected,
lied on, talked about,but they came anyway.
Because the needs of thepeople, especially returning
citizens, are so important.
I believe this is thegreatest civil rights
issue of our generation,the over criminalization
of minorities and what are we, the church,
gonna advocate for?
So, I've got more couragethan I let Jamal Bryant's
opinion keep me from speaking to the most
powerful person on planet earth.
That's how I see it.
- And when it comes to theresponse of fellow believers
and pastors, what do youthink is the biblical way
to handle this sort of disagreement?
'Cause it is pretty nasty on right now
between Christians, people who love God.
- Well I think it's very simple.
Matthew 18 says, "Go toyour brother one on one."
And Jamal, I love you,but you didn't call me.
So I feel some kinda way.
Number two, it says, "Thentake it to the elders."
Their denomination, denominational leaders
that should be engaged if they have ought
and if they think that some of these folk
who were in a meeting are sell outs,
Let's talk behind closeddoors among ourselves.
So, our critics, if I canbe so blunt as to say it
this way, I speak in love,
they are not following anykind of biblical pattern
and I wanna ask them, areyou even praying for me
before you talk about me?
So, my answer is let's goback and go to the bible.
Let's do it the bible way.
- OK Bishop, what doAfrican American pastors
and believers and really all Americans
need to understand asthese political differences
continue to divide ournation even further?
- Well, I think westart with the fact that
for African Americans, wehave a 400 year old problem
from the 1600s.
We've got people who havebeen abused and misused
by multiple groups of leadership
and the old civil rightsguys in King's Day said,
"We have no permanent friends,only permanent interest."
So I believe this is a time where we need
a heart revolution, revivalamong African Americans
especially Latinos andthen we need to cry out
for biblical justice and more than that,
we need to do it in practical ways.
So, every church, we'restarting a campaign called
Bring Dad Home For The Holidays.
Every church in America should bring two
returning citizens to their church,
help them get clothing, housing.
Help them get retraining.
We're doing that in our church.
My question to Jamal and all the others,
what are you doing?
Not what are you saying?
What are you doing in Jesus' name?
- Bishop, you know,some have the argue that
the cameras were rolling andthat if you really wanted
to get something done, whydid all of this have to be
played out in front of cameras?
What do you say to that?
- I say they don't understandthat I've been talking
for 15 months about these issues.
They don't understandthat I've cried and prayed
and fasted that God would move in
on the hearts of these leadersand this administration.
They want to diminish myheart and my spirituality
and they just don'tunderstand that if this stuff
is going on in America,it's gonna get fixed.
We're gonna have to call onsupernatural, biblical authority
to break the chains that bind
and break the curse ofgenerational poverty
on blacks and Hispanics in our nation.
So, my heart is to see Americablaze in the glory of God.
My heart is, I don't carewhat people say about me,
but can Jesus use me?
Can he move in our nation?
Forgive me, my heart is alittle bit touched today.
But that's where I live.
I'm just speaking from who I am
as a person and as a minister.
- Man and what do you hopecomes from all of this,
the meeting, all of thebacklash, everything?
How do you see God using it?
- Well, I'm hoping that we'llcome to a great conclusion
even as the church that wecan influence the nation's
government because we're a democracy,
but we as the church, havegotta repent from our sins.
There's the sin of apathy.
There's the sin of not caring
that kids don't have their dad with them
when they're incarcerated somewhere.
It's the sin of not reallywanting to break out
of our comfort zone andthrow angry stones at others.
That's true, blacks, whites,democrats, republicans,
that's the American conviction.
We're too comfortable,we're too judgmental.
I pray that a mightyjustice revival will rise up
and the hand of Godwill move upon our land
and we'll see people come to Christ
and become disciples of our Lord Jesus.
That's my heart, that'swhat I believe we're
positioned to see andI hope your listeners
will join me on prayer, journeys,
and a prayer vigil if you will
to see our great nation change
that it's even better than it is today.
- Amen and speaking of prayer, Bishop,
would you please lead us in prayer
for revival in ournation, for unity and love
in the church to override our politics?
- Yes, I'd love to.
Heavenly Father, I thank you for CBN,
for Gordon and Pat and Charlene.
I thank you for the anointing and grace
that's upon them, but God,
I pray that you wouldbreak the pride levels
even of our religious leaders and God,
continue to work on my heart.
God, that we begin to beatwith your heart's vision.
God, I believe that King'sdream was not his dream,
but it was God's dream, your dream.
And Lord help us to dream a dream
and have practicaloutworking of that dream
and let it be on our watch.
Let us be so filled withlove God, that we turned
whole cities and ultimately, our nation,
in the mighty name of Jesus, amen.
- Amen, amen.
Bishop Harry Jackson, thankyou so much for praying
and for your insights today.
God bless you.
- Thank you, Charlene.
- You're welcome.