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The Global Lane - October 26, 2018

From Istanbul to the Oval Office. Pastor Andrew Brunson's journey of faith. What happened during his imprisonment in Turkey? Hungary stands up for godly values & Christian heritage. Dale Hurd’s exclusive interview with Hungary’s foreign minister. Read Transcript


- [Gary Lane] Today, from The Global Lane.

From Turkey to the Oval Office.

My interview with Pastor Andrew Brunson,

and Hungary stands up for godly values

and its Christian heritage.

First up, Andrew Brunson'sjourney of faith.

What happened to himduring those two years

he was imprisoned in Turkey.

And it's all right here, right now

from The Global Lane.

- Pastor Brunson, it's sogood to have you here with us

and to see you back homein the United States.

Many Christians were praying for you.

And you were in house arrest,and then within 24 hours

you were in the United Statessitting in the Oval Office

with the President of the United States.

How did that feel?

- [Andrew Bronson] Well, it'skind of a Joseph situation.

Actually, I was just a week ago

standing in a Turkish courtroom

and it became apparent suddenly

that they were going to convict me.

We did not know what was going to happen,

but it was clear they haddecided to convict me.

And I didn't know how many years

they would give me at that time,

and how it would escalatethings politically,

how many years I'd end up in prison.

And within 24 hours, after I was convicted

as a terrorist in Turkey,

I'm officially convicted now,

but released for time served,

and then within 24 hours to be able

to visit the White Houseand pray with the President,

it's a Joseph type situation.

From the prison up tothe White House, amazing.

- That touched a lotof people, that prayer.

Both yours and Norene's.

- Well we were very gladto be able to do it,

I'm sure there are manypastors who would love

to pray for the President,

and he needs our prayersas every President does.

My wife had had a dream

where she was prayingsome verses from Isaiah 11

that the spirit ofwisdom would come on him.

And in the dream, it was like

she was thwarted from doing this.

And finally she was ableto press through and do it.

So she believed this dream was from God,

this was a couple of months ago,

and since then has beenpraying in that way for him.

So we asked the Lord beforewe went to the White House

when we learned that wewould have that opportunity

we prayed together and said,

Lord, we ask that yougive us an opportunity

to pray for this President,to lay hands on him

and ask for your blessing to come on him.

So when he said that,yes, we could pray for him

we were very happy.

- Now back to Turkey,and your ministry there,

25 years with your wife.

Why Turkey?

Out of all the places in the world

you and your wife couldhave ended up, why Turkey?

- Well we didn't originallyplan to go there,

but our mission at thetime asked us to go,

and we said, okay.

But as we stayed there, we realized that,

we developed a real love for the country.

God put it in our hearts.

But one very good reason to be there

is that it's the largestunevangelized country in the world.

So it has very few believersfrom a Turkish background.

This is what, I think, kept us there

for many years is justsewing into that land,

sewing into, what webelieve, is a great harvest

that is going to come there.

- And you were very open.

You never hid the fact thatyou were an evangelist.

- No, we did this openly.

When we started a church,we put a sign out front.

In fact, we welcomed press attention

even though it was negative.

When we go into a citythat has not had a church,

and most Turks have never meta Christian in their lives.

Where would they find a Christian

if they want to meet somebody like that?

So when something negativeshows up in the newspaper,

oh, a new church hasopened, this is terrible.

We say, well, praise God, nowpeople know where to find us.

So we wanted to, in a sense,

we were just there trying to say,

we're here, we're Christian,

and then wait for theseekers to come to us.

- And three months after the coup attempt

against the President and his government,

you're arrested and you'reput in solitary confinement.

What was that like?

- Being in solitary confinementwas very, very difficult.

Especially for a long time,I didn't have a Bible,

there were no books, it was just a bed

and that was it.

So I had nothing to dothroughout the entire day.

And actually what really saved me there

is somehow a booklet by Mike Bickle,

somebody go it in to me,

which we were not allowed to have books,

but someone got that in to me,

and it was just some prayer points.

And that helped me to keep my sanity.

I just began to pray through that,

and I'd pace back andforth across that room

for hours just praying through

these prayer points crying out to God.

- And before this interview,you were telling me

how you started dancing before the Lord.

Tell me how that came about.

- Well I read a book by Richard Wurmbrand

where he describes how when he was

in solitary confinement that Jesus said,

blessed are you when peoplepersecute you and revile you,

falsely say all kinds ofevil things about you.

Rejoice and be glad,exceedingly glad, actually.

And Wurmbrand danced before the Lord

in obedience to this, and I thought,

well, I don't feel joy, Idon't sense joy right now.

But I'm going to dance before the Lord,

as Wurmbrand did, asa sacrifice of praise.

So it was one of the steps I took.

That was into my secondyear when God started

to rebuild my strength.

So every day, I would take five minutes

and I'd just dance before the Lord

and sing those versesfrom Matthew 5:10-11,

and I would say, I dance before you

as Wurmbrand danced before you.

Here's my sacrifice of praise.

- Was that the turning point for you

because you say the first year

was a tough year for you,

and then God took you to a new level.

- The first year I was really broken

in a way that I hadn'timagined that I could be.

I thought I was stronger than that

because we had gone throughsome difficulties in Turkey.

This was very unexpected and I think

what I had exceptedfrom reading biographies

was that prison wouldn'tbe that difficult,

it would just be a time of great intimacy

with God and joy andrejoicing in suffering,

and it was not that way for me.

I was really broken.

And then it was in the second year

that God began to rebuild me.

I could think of several of my friends,

I thought, they would do so much better

in this situation.

They're prayer warriors,they're intercessors,

they would just spendall their time praying.

And I said a number of times,

God, you got the wrong man.

You chose the wrong man for this.

This is a mistake because I'm so week.

So he allowed me to be broken.

I believe God allowedthis, but then he began

to rebuild me in the second year.

- What did you pray at that time?

- [Andrew] When?

- In your deepest, darkest moments.

- I think sometimes myprayers were not very deep.

They were just heartfelt and very simple.

When I was returned for a few days

to solitary confinementwhen my trial started

at a prison where I'd hadsome traumatic experiences,

and I started to really fall apart again.

But then I found that what spontaneously

came from me even I wasjust weeping and weeping

in solitary confinement again,

and I was just saying, I love you, Jesus.

This was my heart.

It was a time, very difficult time,

but just a time of hanging onto him

and making declarations that he loves me

and is faithful, and is good, and true,

even when I don't feel it or see it.

So that was an important turning point

was beginning to make those declarations.

- When did he speak toyou and what did he say?

He didn't speak to me very much.

And this is one thingthat was very difficult

because for many years Iwent after his presence

and I think there was a lot of silence,

and that was surprising to me.

I hadn't expected that.

But he was there, he was there.

- Well looking back at that,why do you think he was silent?

I don't know yet. Istill have to process it,

and I have questions thatare not answered yet.

But one of the things I had to do

was take these questionsand lock them away

and say, God, I don't knowthe answer to these things.

I have doubts, I'm struggling,

but I'm going to put away these things

that lead me to doubt, thatI have questions about,

and just not think about them anymore.

And when you want to deal with them,

then you can open up this box

and take these issues out and tell me.

But until then, I'm putting them away.

I'm just going to hang on to you.

- And he was there.

- He was there.

- Did he lead you to share the gospel

with any of your cellmates?

- I certainly tried.

One of the things is thatmy cellmates were all,

I was in a cell for terrorists,

and so they were all very strong Muslims.

It's basically a Muslimmissionary society,

you could say, a Muslimmissionary movement.

They were telling me about Islam.

And I would answer back,

and I explained Christianity to them.

But it was like being ina Muslim house of prayer.

It was very intense, Muslimprayers going on all the time,

resortation of the Quaran.

- Did they mistreat you?

- No, they didn't.

The prisoners were in thesame situation I was in.

They were in prison,

they didn't know what wasgoing to happen to them,

and they were not bad, no.

- So now that you're free,looking back on this experience,

how did it change your faith, Andrew?

- You know, I was justconvicted a week ago.

So I haven't begun to processwhat God has done in me.

I think that there are someprofound changes in me.

And one simple thing I think is

that I've learned justto press on and hang on

whatever my feelings are.

Make declarations aboutGod's faithfulness to me

even when I don't feel it.

So those are some of the big things.

I think that my main prayer became,

God, I want to serve your purposes.

And if serving your purpose requires me

to remain in prison, I can't do it.

I feel weak and broken,

but then I ask you to give me the strength

and perseverance and courage of Jesus

to just pour it out into me so that

I can finish the race well.

- And finally, I know that you and Norene

are praying for God'sdirection for your future.

How can we, and other peoplewho see this interview,

pray for you, what should we pray?

- [Andrew] Well first we are grateful

for all the people who did pray for us.

It's just an amazingthing, we can't believe it.

And those prayers really sustained us,

and I believe that far beyond us,

that they are an overflowthat will go into Turkey

and the middle east and thatGod will use these prayers

for his purposes there.

As for now, we're just seekingGod to say, what's next?

We've been missionaries for many years,

our heart is to reach the lost,

and we want to continue doing that

for the rest of our lives.

How, where, when, we don't know.

- So you want us to pray then that

God will give you clarity on that

and reveal to you what the future is.

- [Andrew] Yes.

- [Gary] Okay, welcome home.

- Thank you.

- So glad to see you, thank you.

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My husband and I spent nearly a month

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- Two years ago, Donald Trump rode

a populous wave of votersupport into the White House.

He promoted American nationalinterest over globalism,

and he pledged to put America first.

Like the United States, Hungaryis following a similar path.

The former communist country is embracing

and defending its Christian culture.

And that placed it at oddswith the European Union.

Senior InternationalCorespondent Dale Hurd

recently interviewedHungary's foreign minister

who gave him an earful about putting

the country's national interest first.

- [Dale Hurd] Mr. Foreign Minister,

what is Hungary's responseto the EU decision

to punish Hungary overits immigration policy?

- [Peter Szijjarto] Wellbasically, it's a revenge.

What the EuropeanParliament has decided upon.

European Parliament has a majority of MEPs

who are pro-migration,absolutely pro-migration.

And since the Hungariangovernment has proven

in the last three and half years

that migration is a negative phenomenon,

migration is dangerous,

and migration can and must be stopped,

this annoys the majority of the members

of the European Parliament.

This annoys the bureaucrats in Brussels.

This annoys the European commission.

So they made a revenge on Hungary.

Illegal migration is themost serious challenge

European Union has ever had to face

since its foundation.

Illegal migration is anabsolutely dangerous phenomenon.

Look at Europe.

One and a half million people could enter

the territory of the European Union

in an absolutely uncontrolled way.

No one knew who they were.

And since the illegalmigration has started,

33 major terrorist attackshave been committed

on the territory of the European Union

by persons with migratory background.

We are fed up with the politically correct

and hypocratic approachof the European Union.

We are fed up with thosepoliticians who say

that terrorism is partof metropolitan life.

No, it's not.

We have to fight against terrorism,

and we have to tackle theroot causes of terrorism.

And one of the root causes of terrorism

is the illegal migration.

- How can Hungary continuein an organization

where the gap betweenthese two views is so wide?

- Hungary is interested ina strong European Union.

But in order to get there,we have a lot of debates.

The bad news is that some ofour western European friends

question our right to have a debate.

If you don't agree with those ones

who represent a kind offederalistic approach

which suggests that aunited states of Europe

should be established.

Our position is different.

We want a strong European Union

based on strong member states.

We don't like the approachwhich is represented

by some forces in Europewhich would like to

step European Union into a post-national,

post-Christian period.

We want a European Union which cares about

the national identity wherethe countries and nations

are proud of their heritage,about their identity,

about their history.

So the nihalism, the valuess approach

which is there is simplyunacceptable for us.

If Europe is not goingto find the way back

to their Christian rootsand Christian heritage,

then Europe will not be strong again.

That's our vision here.

- How has Hungary's history,explain this to Americans,

how Hungary's historyinforms and has influences

its immigration policy today?

- Well you know, Hungarianpeople are freedom fighters.

We had to fight for our freedom

throughout our history many times.

In the 1956 Revolution

when we fought against the communists,

or we can remember from the history books

a long period of time

when the Osmond's have occupied Hungary.

So we had to fight for freedom

so many times in our history

that we really, really respect

and really can value freedom and liberty.

So that's why we will alwaysstick to preserve our rights

to make a decision onour own whom we allow

to come to the territory of Hungary,

whom we do not allow to do so.

We will never give up our right

to make a decision with whom we would like

to live together in our country.

We will never give up our right

to stick to our culture and heritage.

We have been a Christiancountry for a millennium.

Why should we give it up?

- When we come back, DaleHurd joins us in studio

and shares insights on at least

two age-old European cultureson the verge of suicide.

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- Senior InternationalCorespondent Dale Hurd

joins us in studio with more insights

on Hungary and the European Union.

He recently interviewed theHungarian Foreign Minister

who explained why the EU passed

an unprecedented resolutionstripping Hungary

of its voting rights.

First, in case someone justdoesn't know much about this,

they're just joining us now,

fill us in a little bit about this

disciplinary action theEU took against Hungary.

- Well I say, seeing the interview,

it's symbolic, it's highlysymbolic, it's Article 7.

It's supposed to strip them

of some of their rights as a member.

It's so involved and it takes so long,

and it requires such a large majority

for a final decision that Idon't think it's going anywhere.

- So it was really more symbolic then?

- Yeah, they're bad people.

And why are they bad?

Because they believe thewrong things, basically.

I mean, that's my conclusion.

Because look at the European Union.

We've been talking for yearsat how undemocratic it is.

But Hungary gets smacked for it because

they don't like some of theother things Hungary stands for.

- So you had this exclusive interview.

You went up to New York

with the Foreign Minister of Hungary.

So, Dale, what was yourtake-away from this?

- Clarity. It feels like they're blessed

with a moral clarity, political clarity,

and it doesn't mean I agreewith everything they're doing,

but they just see things clearer.

They see the situationin Europe much clearer.

- What was your impressionof the Foreign Minister?

- Very likable guy, anda guy who, as I said,

sees things as they are.

Which they do not in Brusselsor in Stockholm or in Berlin.

It's like they're undera cloud of confusion.

- So let's look at Hungary and Poland.

Why do you think the EU has this attitude

towards these two countries?This negative attitude.

- Because they're nottowing the party line.

I don't mean to be melodramatic,

but it's the same thing yousaw in the Soviet Union.

If you don't believe the right thing,

you're a bad person no matter what.

- Do they think they're less civilized?

Why is that?

- Yeah, they look down on them

because they're new tothe table of democracy,

but guess what, thecountries in western Europe

that have had democracy for longer

are falling into this vat of confusion

and guilt and national self-hatred.

The phrase, the post-national state,

that's the way European countries

in the west view their future.

As borderless,politically-correct entities.

- I remember when I was inSweden not too long ago,

I asked the Swedes, Isaid, aren't you concerned

about all these immigrantsthat are coming in

to your country, and they said,

well why should we be concerned?

I said, well, they'lldestroy your culture.

They don't want to adapt your culture,

they want to impose theirs on you.

And they said, what Swedish culture?

- Yeah. They get that.

They had a Prime Minister a few years ago

who wasn't even a leftist.

He was somewhat conservative,Fredrik Reinfeldt,

who said Sweden doesn't have any culture.

You see this in Germany,and you see this in France.

The media, which is dominated by the left,

and the educationalinstitutions keep reinforcing

this idea that you shouldhate your own culture,

and if you don't, you're a nationalist,

you a dangerous fascist.

- It's reminds me of our former President

who went on an apology tour.

It's almost like hewas trying to apologize

for our culture.

- And they do it byhating your own country

or your own culture,

they don't mean the food or the mountains,

they mean your achievements,the idea that your country

might be unique and great, you know,

how Americans feel about our country.

- Or we do again, anyway.

You know when I was in Hungary,

I think it was 2014 as you saw,

6,000 people coming in a day, migrants.

Pouring over the border into Hungary.

The Hungarians, when I was there,

put up this fence, and they gota lot of criticism for that,

saying, oh, you guys are cold,

Hungary has no compassionfor these poor migrants.

- It's as if western Europe wants everyone

to suffer equally.

And Hungary's not willingto suffer from immigration.

And it's like, well, we suffered,

you have to suffer too.

And I come back to this idea that

it feels as if, to me,Hungary is under a blessing

and their leaders are ableto see things clearly,

and you just do not getthat kind of clarity

in western Europe.

- [Pat Roberton] When yougive, smiles grow bigger.

When you care, homes are happier.

When you comfort, the hurt goes away.

When we all come together to love,

miracles happen.

- Hello, I'm Terry Meeuwsen.

Did you know there are more than

148 million orphans in theworld today? 148 million.

But it was three littlegirls that taught me

about the plight of orphans.

My husband and I spent nearly a month

immersed in the daily activities

of a Ukrainian orphanage as we waited

to adopt three sisters.

I saw firsthand the utterloneliness, the pain of rejection,

and the overwhelming desire to be loved.

That experience changed me forever.

And out of it grew aministry from my heart

called Orphan's Promise.

Today, we're helping orphansand vulnerable children

in more than 50 countries worldwide.

Thousands of childrenare now in safe homes.

They're being educated andthey're learning life skills.

I'm asking you to join with me

and become family to these children.

Will you call the numberon your screen right now

because every child deservesa chance to be happy.

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- Well that's it from The Global Lane.

Be sure to follow us on Facebook, iTunes,

Sound Cloud, Youtube and Twitter.

And until next time, be blessed.

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